Anonymous wrote:

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One of the main reasons that Lan Xang fell to Thai is because the Thai king had spies that were Lao working for him. Anyone denying this doesn't know the real truth. These Lao spies unfortunatly told the Thai king where to attack and at what time. Also Lao never had a strong army like the Thai and they needed the help of Vietnam all the time. It's too bad Thai people had to do such a bad thing to Laos. Thai people have foolish pride.

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i agree with you there about thai having spies inside of laos but where i disagree is where u said lao never had a army?

how can we conquer that much land with out a great army? truth is laos feel because we backstabed each other and other countries took advantage of that. and viets prolly backed uss up and stole land from us too but that was only after we broke into 3 kingdomes and became week.

dont worry though i feel that lao will rise again. as long as we keep heading in this direction and unite all lao ppl no more back stabbing each other.

Anonymous wrote:

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Yes you are right. Lao people must unite together. They have to stop saying "No I'm better, that guy is not good." This happens all over the place especially in Laos. No more backstabbing. Look at Thai people. They have prospered because they have come together and help each other. I hope Lao can one day do the same and without China trying to take over.

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DEATHEP wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Yes you are right. Lao people must unite together. They have to stop saying "No I'm better, that guy is not good." This happens all over the place especially in Laos. No more backstabbing. Look at Thai people. They have prospered because they have come together and help each other. I hope Lao can one day do the same and without China trying to take over.

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Thailand prospered because of their position as a buffer between France and British territories so they could play off one another, Chinese investment and immigration to Bangkok, natural resources, cheap labor, sex tourism, drug trafficing, and sucking up to falang.

not because of unity ;)

 

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Destined wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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One of the main reasons that Lan Xang fell to Thai is because the Thai king had spies that were Lao working for him. Anyone denying this doesn't know the real truth. These Lao spies unfortunatly told the Thai king where to attack and at what time. Also Lao never had a strong army like the Thai and they needed the help of Vietnam all the time. It's too bad Thai people had to do such a bad thing to Laos. Thai people have foolish pride.

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i agree with you there about thai having spies inside of laos but where i disagree is where u said lao never had a army?

how can we conquer that much land with out a great army? truth is laos feel because we backstabed each other and other countries took advantage of that. and viets prolly backed uss up and stole land from us too but that was only after we broke into 3 kingdomes and became week.

dont worry though i feel that lao will rise again. as long as we keep heading in this direction and unite all lao ppl no more back stabbing each other.

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Anonymous wrote:

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[video=http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zLhA1Ho1Flo]

TRUE OR FALSE ?

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Ake wrote:

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chiip wrote:

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You better thanks the french government, because thanks to the french warships anchored near bangkok city and threatened to destroy the city if thai army don't retreat from the left side of the mekong river and in the other hand thai government has traced the demarcation of their country to the bordr of vietnam. So, don't see that thai are so gentle to lao people and spared some land to them and more, before they have problem with french collonialists they already deported from all over the country ( Laos ) skilled families such as carpenters, joiners, blacksmiths, goldsmiths, weavers to bangkok... so if you want to see fine artworks made by skilled people go to see it in bangkok... many of them were from Laos... and some others who were not skilled in any art were obliged to dig the " klong saen saep " see closely its name = klong : canal, saen saep : very painful the laomen became slaves in bangkok very long time...so you see now why thai look down on lao people, on easane people... they were their slaves and now want to be equal to them...
regards

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Houy!!..you really want to Thanks to French to help Lao to be independence from Thailand? And was under french colonial and made you happy? French took everything out of the country and left you with nothing and being one of the most poor countries in the world and Lao today like a begger to beg other countries to help for everything..will you still loves and worship French to the top of your head as a hero to free Lao from Thailand and being another French Colonial?

Lao should be Lao not belong to anyone else but what to do...we are small country and in the old time Kings like to make fighting for peoples and lands for their pride. You are just gerneral people you might don't understand it clearly and misunderstand of some spots.

For my openion being Thailand's colonist is might be better than French der. If Thai King wont cut piece of Lao cake to French. Lao nowaday might be better than today like other province of Thailand already. Not so poor like this

Open your mind and accepted and you can't change anything in history. You must make Lao today get better.

 

-- Edited by Ake on Friday 24th of April 2009 05:39:54 AM

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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[video=http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zLhA1Ho1Flo]

TRUE OR FALSE ?

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That is the truth but it is too late now because it had been too long  the new generations of Esan they learn and taught by Thai history  since they were born . So they think , they are Thai now. I believe may be about 176 years ago. So you have to compare the Chinese, Vietnam , Burma and Cambodia and also the France history because they are connect and lead to one to another to really find out the truth.

 

 

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Anonymous wrote:

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Destined wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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[video=http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=zLhA1Ho1Flo]

TRUE OR FALSE ?

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That is the truth but it is too late now because it had been too long  the new generations of Esan they learn and taught by Thai history  since they were born . So they think , they are Thai now. I believe may be about 176 years ago. So you have to compare the Chinese, Vietnam , Burma and Cambodia and also the France history because they are connect and lead to one to another to really find out the truth.

 

 

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yeah that is true  but if the esan ppl were given real educatoin and a real chance at knowledge they would know the truth and i believe they are begining to realize slowly because they are getting more exposed to knowledge and not soo ignoratn any more. it is really common sense the more knowledge you know the more they would know that they are lao and that the land belongs to us if it werent for our own down fall. but i can see lao ppl havea  bright future together as one whole family.

 

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          Well, may be, we are better off without Esan if they become one of us remember they will be the one who have the power and rule the country because we are the minority but Laos will have every things and strong in economy because the agriculture and land and natural resources. But Thai would never  give up. So it not worst to have a war against any body. Just learn our own lesson from our history . So we must united and look at Israel for example . No matter any where on earth the Jew they help each other. To keep what we have now before the Thailand , Vietnam and China to take over and make the real original Lao extinct.

 

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The twoRE; THE FALL OF LANXANG:  as i came across on this website and read the head line about  the fall of ( LANXANG KINGDOM), AND SOME COMMENTS  SAID ; How come she does't start from the begining . some said Why did'nt she mention about Viet, and Siam ,Well here it is ;Before  i 'm starting the History .I like to warn all you guys do not fall as sleep before you finish reading Ok. Here it is; The man who gave the territories of what it now ( laos); Their first shape as a unified state was a Fourteenth-century Prince Name ( Pha Chao Fa Ngum,) a convert to a Buddhism Who had spent his youth as an exile at Angkor. He established his court at Muong  Swa , On the upper Mekong , and invited to it Bonzes( Buddisht Monks),Scholars, and craftsman. He acquire a 500 -year-old Buddha Called The Pha Bang, Which later Gave Muong Swa the name of Luang Pha Bang ( Town of Golden Buddha). During this era, The rulers of the Surrounding states on the East, South, and West-- Annam, Champa, Angkor, Sukhothai, Ayudthaya,ChiengMai, and thoses of the Shans and the Burmess-were busily intriguing againt one another; Meanwhile, Annam was at War with China. By playing off these petty Princes againt one another ,Pha Chao Fa Ngum extended his rule to all the Principalites along the Mekong, and Captured Vientiane,( Vieng Chun at prentday). His Domain,When consolidated in 1353 under the name Lanxang (Kingdom of million Elephants), Reach from the Crest  of the Annamite Mountains on the East to Watershed division between the Mekong and Menam, and from China in the North almost as far as Angkor Wat in the South. It's included Chieng Mai and Much of the Korat Plateau in What is Today Thailand, and portion of present day Northern Cambodia. Fa ngum was succeeded in 1373 by his Son, Sam Sen Thai.In an age of Warring feudal lords, His reign was one of peace, Mark by the Building of Many Wats (Pogodas)and by the creation a novel system of the Local Government. Under Sam Sen Thai's System,Local Governor were selected by King or by the Council of Notables,Usually from the Family of the previous in Cumbent. any qualified person had the Posibility of Assuming a high Office in the State . The two succeesive Kings, Father and Son, Rule over a Grop of vassalPrinces and exacted recognition from Neighboring Emperors and potentates, their source of power was a Centralize  Standing Army of  150,000 men. divided in to infantry,Cavalry, and Elephant Corps,Supported by a SupplyCorps of 20,000 coolies. in practice, each of the Local governors exerted considerable contral over the soldiers recruited from his District,Who also served as Local Police force.With the machinery of State, The Two Kings preserved the Independence of Lan-Xang from the Enemies without and from Dissolution within. However,  After the Death of ( Sam Sen Thai,) in 1416, the divisive forces in this Early Lao Kingdom prove stronger than the Cohesive. The fact that the Mekong ,with it's alternating shallow rapids and Flood-spreading crests,Coud not be used as an Avenue of Communication favored provincial autonomy rather than centralized -autthority,Under Sam Sen Thai's successors ,His territories became prey for his more powerful neighbors, An invasion from Annam threatened Lanxang with extinction in 1478, When Vietnamese trops Captured Luang Phabang and drove out the King, Sai Tiakaphat. However, The King's son ,Prince Theng Kham , rallied His subjects and pushed the Vietnamese out of the Kingdom. The Father then vacated the Throne in favor of his son,Who began his Reign  under the name ( souvanna Palang) .The First Records of Europeans arriving  in Lanxang dated  from the Reign of Souligna-Vongsa,(1637-94). They were traders and Missionaries,Who found the Lao a Happy and carefree people but saw a little prospects of either economic advantage or Christian converts. A Dutch merchant, Gerrit Van Wuysthoff, arrived  in 1641 and left soon thereafter .A Jesuit , Father Giovanni-Maria leria, stayed on five years before despairing of success in his missionary work. An interesting Sidelight is provided by one notable accompishment of Souligna-Vongsa's generally Peacefull Reign : Aboundary agreement with the Empire of the Trinh in the Red River Delta. Sin it was the Lao Custom to build house on the Stilts Six to Nine feet high, While the Vietnamese Build thier house on Ground, A Clear-cut  division of territory was agree upon:  House on the Stilts went to Lao side, and house on the Ground to Vietnamese. Souligna-Vongsa Died  in 1694 , leaving no living Sons.The Throne was seized by Tian-Thala,The highes-ranking Mandarin of the Royal Palace. Six years later He was over thrown AND Put to Death by a Provincial Governor Name d Nantharat. Upon this, Souligna-Vongsa's minor Grandsons, Kitsarat and Inthasom, Fled from Vientiane to Luang Phabang. The News of this Coup reached Sai Ong Hue, The Son of Souligna Vongsa's Brother, Who had been living in exile in Annam. that same year, 1700, Sai Ong Hue marched on Vientiane at the Head of an Army of Vietnamese soldiers. He Captured the Town,  had Nantharath put to Death, and proclaimed Himself King. He sent his half Brother, Thao Long to Take Possession of Luang Phabang in his Name, and Kitsarat and Inthasom, one more fearing for thier lives, Fled Northeast to a principality rule by a princely Cousin Named Khamone Noi. In 1707,With an Army of 6000 Raised by Khamone Noi, With Two Grandsons March on Luang Phabang and Captured it. Kiysarat was proclaimed King and sent an Ultimatum to Sai Ong Hue in Vientiane that He should Consider the province North of the Nam Thuong, or Thuong River, as Kingdom outside his Sovereignty. Sai Ong Hue 's Kingdom further reduced in 1713 by the Secession of the Numberof territories to the South  a long both Banks of the Mekong,Wich Grouped Them selves into the Kingdom of ( ChampaSak.)The old Kingdom of Lanxang now was split up into Three separate Kingdoms: ( Luang Phabang, Vientiane, and ChampaSak. constant Warfare among rival Princes racked the Countryside in the Eighteenth and the Nineteenth Centuries, Opening to forays by the more Powerfull Siam, Annam, and Burma. aan Siamese army Captured and  sacked Vientiane in 1827, After the Ruler, King Anourouth, had successfully attempted to March on BangKok. The Victorious army forcibly Resettled Thousands of Lao on the Korat Plateau on the Right Bank of the Mekong in the hope that they would cause less trouble there. Chao Anourouth fled across the Annamite Mountains to Hue, Where the Emperor Minh Mang offered to help him to  reconqer his Kingdom. in 1828, at the Head of an Expedition of Vietnamese trops , Chao Anourouth March back to Vientiane. However, most of the Trops deserted  en Route , and as soon as he arrived  in his ruined Capital He was again chased out by the Siamses. This time He fled to the Kingdom of Xieng Khouang, a small principality center in the Plain of Jars, Which Managed to Survive by paying Tribute to Both Lanxang ( and it's successors ) and Annam . Chao Noi , King of the Xieng Khouang, confronted a difficalt choice, Wether to offend Siam or Annam.He decided on the later, and handed  Chao Anourouth over to the Siamses, Who carried him off away  to BangKok, Where he died in 1835 . Chao Noi 's Action predictably angered Minh Mang, Who demaned that He come to Hue to explain  his action. Instead, Chao Noi sent an Envoy with Rich presents, Hoping to Lessen The Emperor 's displeasure. His gesture failed However, and Minh Mang sent a Vietnamese force to seize him and had him  publicly excuted in Hue. His little Kingdom  then became a prefecture of the Empire of Annam, in 1832. Annam's rule over the annexed territory of the Xieng Khouang was harsh in the extreme,its people even compelled to wear Vientnamese dress. The out come was a revelt, During the Vietnamese governor was Killed .After restoring order ,The Vietnamese won over Chao Pho, The oldest son of Chao Noi, and in 1885 gave him the lofty title of '' Imperial Mandatory Prince'', and control over the administration of Xieng Khuang. The little principality continued to pay tribute to both Annam and the Luang Phabang,But after 1855 the tight Grip of the Vietnamese beyond the Annamite Mountains relexed  some what as the Emperor at Hue Increasingly  had to cope with the French.   The advent of the French , In the midle of the Nineteenth century, European power were landing trader on the China coast in eager  hope to exploiting that vast, Mysterious country, the traders were follow by the  military,Who were sent to consolidate the conceessions wrested from a decadent Empire French, led by small minority of activists evisioning control of the  easiest route to the fabled wealth of Yunnan,dispatched  military forces to the Red River delta in1872. French land naval expiditions defeated the Vietnamses trops  and Chinese mercenaries and imposed  a treaty of protectoratever the court of Hue, in 1884 , France won the the right to place  its resident over the Mandarin administrators of Annam abd Tonkin and to install a resident-General in the citadel of Hue, French military outposts were established  at Lai Chau, Sonla,  and Van bu, in the Mountainsm of NorthWest Tonkin.  SIAM, fearing the Court of Hue Would invoke the protectorate to Compel the French Military to Reassert Annam's claims beyond the Annamite Mountains, Launched its own Large-scale Mililtary Expidition into Northern   LAOS in 1885 . The pretext used by The SIAMESE was that they were protecting  the inhabitants from the further incursions from the Southern China. Indeed, for for some fifteen years, Laos  had been  invaded Armed bands plundering  and Killing.  And these had inflicted  Great suffering on the Population, Which Called them The ( Ho, or Jak Ho, the  respect term Chinese) , The Siamese Occupied  the Plain of Jars and then dispatched Two of their Commissaries to the Capital of Luang Phabang to supervise the Kingdom's affairs. Thereupon, The Quai d' Osay  sent a note to BangKok warning  that Hue Claimed sovereignty over Both Xieng Khouang and Luang Phabang and Asking the SIAM to agree that a Joint Commission Examine the Boundaries of Luang Phabang on the Spot. Subsequently, on May 7, 1886 SIAM granted France the right to post a Vice-Consul to Luang Phabang. Creation of this post seemingly indicated FRENCH Recognition of Siam's sovereignty over Luang Phabang, sine consulates  function only in foreign territories. But the matter was to End badly for SIAMSES,  Ok, Ok . TO BE CONTINUE  THERE A LOT  TO COME , NEXT PART WOULD BE WHY LAO LOST THE 17 PROVINCES OF THE RIGHT BANK TO SIAM,,,  LOR KORN DER PHEE NONG KONLAO,

Ohayo gozaimasu,Connichi-wa?

Gomen nasai to keep you waiting for so long.. so How's every body in here? so let' start where we left off Ok,  For the Frenchman appointed to the post, (Auguste Pavie,) was fully alert to its prospects. Pavie was an official to the Cocinchinese postal and telegraphservices who had shown considerable imagination in dealing with the peoples of Southern Indochina. He departed from Bangkok with eight Cambodian bodyguards and two servants  at the end of the year, and on February11,1887 , he disembarked from his pirogue at Luang Phabang town.

There the Siamese commissaries accorded him a polite but supicious  welcome, some what similar to that accorded American in later days by the French. the commissaries proceeded to frustrat his initial attempts to arrange an audience with the aged ''King, OunKham.'' Four months after his arrival, at the onset of the rainy season, the Siamese troops who were the protectors of the Kingdom withdrew to Bangkok. They took along as hostages the four brothers of DeoVanTri, a powerful (white-tai) chieftain at Lai-chou. in revenge, Deo Van tri 's army, composed largely of Chinese troops, descended  on the undefended  capital and burned it to the ground. Many terrified inhabitants were killed, but Pavie, Acting with shrewd foresight, spirited away the septuagenarian  Oun Kham to safety downstream, saving his life and preventing him from falling into hostile hands. Thereupon Pavie persuaded the King to give up the Siamese protectorate, which has proved utterly worthless, in favor of a French protectorate. That was begining of the French colonial rule in Laos.

There is a little evidence that it was the product of a grandiose and premeditated scheme. Rather, it appears to have been the accidental creation of one extraodinarily able and immaginative man. Pavie months later returned the hostages to Deo Van Tri in perfect health, and so earned the gratitute and friendship of the Tai tribes of the Tonkin border region.  and by a combination of force and skillful diplomacy,  he also free the country of the worst of the ( HO=Jake Ho) marauders.Pavie was a doer, forever clambering into his pirogue for a quick trip upstream to look into some local situation. He traveled from Luang Phabang to Hanoi, to Bangkok, to Saigon,and to most of the river junctions and outposts in between.

He would sit down with his small retinue in a village headman's house and exchange tales over a jug of stiff choum, or (ricewine,) sucked through long straws, and the next day he would be off on the trail again,over mountain passes and through steaming valleys.in this way he won over the tribal leaders and could show the French tricolor in regions two weeks'march from any sizable town.

In 1888, at a large gathering in the DienBien phu valley, he personly received Siam's renunciation of its claim to the Douze Cantons (in Thai, SipSong-ChouThai), an extensive almond-shaped territory lying along a perpendicular drawn midway along the Luang Phabang -Hanoi axis. Incidents between Siamese and French officicals in Khammouane distubed Pavie, and in Februry, 1889, he traveled there to warn the Siamese representatives to avoid any hostile moves. by now, the official French position was that this territory , which had once paid tribute to Annam, was French protected by virtue of the Treaty of protectorate with Annam. ( this applicationof European legal concepts to the feuds among the principalities, of Indochina has been a basic concept for later apologists for French colonization).

After further incidents, the French dispatched a naval contigent to Bangkok. Under this presure, Siam signed a treaty on October3, 1893, renouncing all claim on the left bank of the Mekong , both North and South. subsequent Franco-Siamese conventions in 1902, 1904, and 1907 attached certain right-bank territories to Luang Phabang and Champassak. 

One of Pavie last achiements before leaving Laoswas the oganization of the Northern most provinces, including the careful mapping of the border with Vietnam( apportioning part of the DouzCantons to the latterand part to Luang Phabang ) and joint surveys with the Brittish and Chinese commisions to establish the borders with Burma and China. The former was fixed at the Mekong by an Anglo-French declaration of January15, 1896 and latter by an agreement with China during 1896-97. with this adjustments, Laos assumed its present external boundaries.

before the adventof the French, Laos has never been surveyed, and the drawing up of Maps of the country was an important administrative accomplishmrnt of French rule..

Okitanaka wrote:

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Connichi-wa ? Okitanaka tomou shimasu, Gomen nasa to keep you guys waiting for so long, very sorry that I promised you guys that I'll come soon after my second  parts of lao-histories, But I didn't, The reason why?? as I scrolled around this website and I've found out that a lots of Laotien has a war of words with a lots of thai's . especially when bring up the issue between thai' and Lao histories. so i have made my decision not to put part three out for you guys, because part three has alots of lao/lao and thai/thai. things to discuss. so I hope all of you guys understand , ok.

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