Are there many vice activities in VTE? Should we discourge those underground disco/or those known have vice?

Date: Aug 11, 2007

Are there many vice activities in VTE? Should we discourge those underground disco/or those known have vice?

Date: Aug 11, 2007

Big Issue

The other day I recalled this matter by saying this is very important for Lao's authority, I now settle in Australia but always want to make my contribution to this kind of discussion to help LAO. I said there a link, connecttion in getting to the top and study hard, not playing or drinking beer in clubs as reported. Someone even criticised me by saying she or he did not understand what I was talking about, she or he even stated by students are everywhere....so like I attacked lao students rather than just remind people there was an ISSUE of students each day after school not going home but to the clubs as reported.
All reports about these issues it's that there are many people with Vision, and Saw the danger of 'A young lao generation' lost because of addicted to Alcohol or Drugs, (Amphetamine or JAR BAR, now more dangerous one is on the market CRYSTAL OR ICE even more dangerous than JAR BAR).

For me if I was Lao's leader I will re organise my POLICE FORCE, first Police's car patrol the streets at night in those areas.....and under cover Polices in those night clubs....arrested all young who were in those clubs, let them stay in Cells one night and next morning get their parents come in and talk about their children activies....to see whether or not Parents knew about what did their children do, where have they been. But the tought decision Lao's authority must do is to place heavy FINE on those Clubs the first time, as a WARNING for Unlawful activities, the next step if young students or young under age girls and boys are still found playing in those clubs.....then Lao's authority must shut them down.
There are friends of mine have not right about many issues in LAO, but it is good to point them out so we together could deal with them. One issue is Lao and countries around the world which come to invest in LAO, he stated if Lao's government let many countries come and do business in LAO, then the country is no longer INDEPENDENT....and will become SLAVE to those countries. But I did not agree with that, all countries in the world have investment from everywhere, AUSTRALIA have many countries came and invest here....Example NOVOTEL in a french company with operate hotels around the world, each country have LAW and so People who come to invest in certain country have to follow LAW of that country.....so what did he say was TOTALLY WRONG not only WRONG but TOTALLY. AUSTRALIA did not become Slave to France because of Novotel. But if we look at the other way...let say Lao asked Japan to build Metro in Vientiane....then Lao has that facility, but on the other hand because of Japanese fund....we LAO have to pay back the money until the day we finish to pay back the debt, and from that the metro belong to LAO.

It does not have anything to do with you loose your INDEPENDENT or Being SLAVE to Japan, those time past. COLONISATION is finished.

Date: Aug 11, 2007

You are right that this is a huge issue for Laos, but I don't think 'prohibition' (stopping access to drugs and alcohol or shutting nightclubs) has worked in any country. The problems associated with 'teenagers' are there because the teenager is a new social group - in between being a child and being a working adult. They have a freedom, time and lack of responsibility because of this. Of course I support enforcing the law, yes, but the lack of laws is not the 'cause' of drug use and associated problems. The cause may be problems with the education system and the lack of rolemodels and dreams for the future among young people. Who do they 'want to be like?' Kaysone or Sek Loso? I was reading one VOA article recently that said that the Lao education system is actually getting 'worse'. Teachers are leaving the government education system to work in private schools and Ok, there are some nice private schools in Vientiane but for most young people they are totally cut off. You have to have money to get near these schools, and you have to go to these schools if you want to get a job that helps you raise a family and get the income to practicipate in the kind of urban lifestyles that are displayed in Thai soap operas. So I think the problem with this 'young lost generation' is not necessarily just that they don't follow the law. The government can shut all nightclubs at 3 in the afternoon but it will not stop youth from getting together and doing drugs because drugs alter their minds, make them forget about the future and the things they dont think they can have, drugs make them forget about 'least developed' Laos. Drugs are an escape from a hopeless situation. Sure, not everyone in Laos, particularly those with a job and a vigo in nice 'developing' Vientiane thinks the situation is hopeless, but that is why they are not on drugs or selling their bodies.

Date: Aug 12, 2007

I really agree with the above mentioned opinions in general. However, it could partly true. I Last time I did think like you guys why?????? oh, seemed like I am the only one person clever on earth. After that I found out the answers were many buts. I realised that things cannot be done over night. It needs time when you work with people, but not animals. In fact, as we all know that our government always pays much attention to our teenagers as they are considered as our country future. No wonder, I think, that is why in our country there is a youth union, whereby presumably the young people could be educated with good activities. Apart from the youth union, all parties concerned like police, village official also pay a lot of attention to this issue. Since in Laos the population is small, they know all teenagers, including those who do vice activities. Actually it is fair to say that, no one can do anything beyond their eyes, including spy activities. So I strongly believe one day they would succeed about this issue. Actually I am not a government official; I live in Singapore, but I often visit my family in Laos. When I visit this website, I feel that some opinions are bias or just refer to the bias articles written by anti-government agencies. I think we should critically think like civilized people who do in the 21 century, but not in 19 century.

Date: Aug 12, 2007

Yes, in Australia, when comes to LAW and ORDER, particularly with nightclubs did not follow rules and regulations, the federal police will come in with a big bang, usually they will use a big hammer, smashing down the door and come in harsh.....they will body search everyone in the club....so whatever you think is it, but LAW is LAW, if you broke the Law then face it.
Of course there are other issues or someone think that because you are growing up to become an adult, you should experience with drugs and alcohol or become prostitutes....but reality you do not have to behave like that, is all because of people you mix with.
Talking about ROLE Model I suggest young lao should do a little bit research about BILL GATES, or read some useful stuff in internet, about IT, there are all sort of things to be discouver, gain knowledge why talking, freedom to experience drugs, alcohol and prostitutions. Don't you see that not wise and wrong to choose that path. Try to be someone like BILL GATES if you seek some role model. Stop talking non sense, it would be better future ahead rather follow the dangerous, and harmful way of life.

BILL GATES and his wife are very simple people, as rich as him but he queue up to buy his food like any normal people, his wife does not like expensive clothes and they gave away about 80% of the wealth to the poor....and NO DRUGS NO WHORES.....of course.

Date: Aug 12, 2007

Hey Mr Singapore, views which contradict the views of the Lao government are not 'anti-government'. Anti-government means people who want to destroy the Lao government. I certainly don't want to do that, but I do want the freedom to question the government because no government is perfect and the ability of the people to question the government is the basis of much progress in the world (although apparently not in singapore, but I think singapore is a unique example because it is a small very wealthy city-state where extreme government controls go well with economic progress - I am not so sure it is a good example for Laos, which is a very different country). At the moment I am not sure there is enough 'questioning' of government policy in Laos. Just let pro-government people say that they are 'working hard' supporting development, but no one is allowed to question whether this is actually happening in reality without someone calling them 'anti-government'. As for the Lao Youth Union, it was a revolutionary mass organisation set up to produce particular socialist values among youth, turning them into ideal citizens, but now I am not so sure that the government knows what ideals it has. This is my point: what ideals do young Lao people have? Who do they want to be like? What role models? I truly and faithful support the Lao government in its attempts to produce positive role models for youth to grow up and be like: but what are they exactly? And we can start today, however long it takes.

Date: Aug 12, 2007

Perhaps someone can come up with a more realistic role model than bill gates. He is now the second richest man in the world after some mobile phone tycoon in Mexico but serious, what can a Lao village boy learn from bill? Come on, maybe something closer to home, what about inside Laos? What about a famous Lao person, someone emerging in the Lao media? A new young politician? Buasone is cool, compared to the old men at least. But he is still old. Is there any young famous Party member in Laos that people want to be like? Sensitive question? Well this is the heart of the problem.

Date: Aug 12, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Hey Mr Singapore, views which contradict the views of the Lao government are not 'anti-government'. Anti-government means people who want to destroy the Lao government. I certainly don't want to do that, but I do want the freedom to question the government because no government is perfect and the ability of the people to question the government is the basis of much progress in the world (although apparently not in singapore, but I think singapore is a unique example because it is a small very wealthy city-state where extreme government controls go well with economic progress - I am not so sure it is a good example for Laos, which is a very different country). At the moment I am not sure there is enough 'questioning' of government policy in Laos. Just let pro-government people say that they are 'working hard' supporting development, but no one is allowed to question whether this is actually happening in reality without someone calling them 'anti-government'. As for the Lao Youth Union, it was a revolutionary mass organisation set up to produce particular socialist values among youth, turning them into ideal citizens, but now I am not so sure that the government knows what ideals it has. This is my point: what ideals do young Lao people have? Who do they want to be like? What role models? I truly and faithful support the Lao government in its attempts to produce positive role models for youth to grow up and be like: but what are they exactly? And we can start today, however long it takes.

Actually, I accepted that you have a good idea, a constructive opinion and I appreciate it. If you read carefully in my message I think you will not find any blaming that you are an anti-government person. The fact that some medias are trying to criticize Lao government by saying something without ground, just want to discredit Lao government image, is why I call them anti-government agencies. In fact, I don't know how to call them with another word. Just like "Laos Educational Quality Declining"(VOA). Now in Laos there are 4 universities and lots of government and private colleges, not to mention schools. Number of students are getting more and more. Those who graduated from these universities can continue studying for their Master or Doctorate in Laos and oversea. I don't know how the VOA measures the education quality of Laos, and compared with when, saying it declined? Is it compared with before 1975? Do forgive me, I don't think so.

chiip · Guru

I just don`t know where ur young people is heading to...13-14 old boys using amphetamine and alcohol and 12 years old girls already have sex...it is the begining of prostitution, it is very sad to think of these young girls and boys who choosed to lead a depraved life.
who is responsible ? Parents ? Education system ? Youth organization ? Lao women union ? Trade Union ? or someone else ?

Date: Aug 13, 2007

chiip wrote:

I just don`t know where ur young people is heading to...13-14 old boys using amphetamine and alcohol and 12 years old girls already have sex...it is the begining of prostitution, it is very sad to think of these young girls and boys who choosed to lead a depraved life.
who is responsible ? Parents ? Education system ? Youth organization ? Lao women union ? Trade Union ? or someone else ?

Yes, it is no secret to everyone that such problem exists in Laos. Lao government takes some measures to cope with this problem. All parties concerned like schools, colleges and the like seriously pay attention to this issue. Thank to international organizations and friendly countries have provided some funds to cope with this problem. There are some centers where the drug addict people can be cured and educated. However, the problem cannot be solved overnight.
It seems to me you have never been in Laos, you just hear from rumor and that is why you don't know what Lao government tries to solve with such problem. Tell you a truth, they are not less concerned than you so be sure that they are not so stupid as you expect. And also from my part I would like to thank to all give us valuable advices. By the way, it seems to me there are no jails or prisons in the western countries. Last time I saw western movie shown that western children mostly start have sex from primary schools. Thank Good, unlike western countries, our people mostly are conservative with sex issue, they preserve our Lao culture quite well.

Date: Aug 13, 2007

RE: Are there many vice activities in VTE? Should we discourge those underground disco/or those known have vice?

Anonymous wrote:

Hey Mr Singapore, views which contradict the views of the Lao government are not 'anti-government'. Anti-government means people who want to destroy the Lao government. I certainly don't want to do that, but I do want the freedom to question the government because no government is perfect and the ability of the people to question the government is the basis of much progress in the world (although apparently not in singapore, but I think singapore is a unique example because it is a small very wealthy city-state where extreme government controls go well with economic progress - I am not so sure it is a good example for Laos, which is a very different country). At the moment I am not sure there is enough 'questioning' of government policy in Laos. Just let pro-government people say that they are 'working hard' supporting development, but no one is allowed to question whether this is actually happening in reality without someone calling them 'anti-government'. As for the Lao Youth Union, it was a revolutionary mass organisation set up to produce particular socialist values among youth, turning them into ideal citizens, but now I am not so sure that the government knows what ideals it has. This is my point: what ideals do young Lao people have? Who do they want to be like? What role models? I truly and faithful support the Lao government in its attempts to produce positive role models for youth to grow up and be like: but what are they exactly? And we can start today, however long it takes.

Actually, I accepted that you have a good idea, a constructive opinion and I appreciate it. If you read carefully in my message I think you will not find any blaming that you are an anti-government person. The fact that some medias are trying to criticize Lao government by saying something without ground, just want to discredit Lao government image, is why I call them anti-government agencies. In fact, I don't know how to call them with another word. Just like "Laos Educational Quality Declining"(VOA). Now in Laos there are 4 universities and lots of government and private colleges, not to mention schools. Number of students are getting more and more. Those who graduated from these universities can continue studying for their Master or Doctorate in Laos and oversea. I don't know how the VOA measures the education quality of Laos, and compared with when, saying it declined? Is it compared with before 1975? Do forgive me, I don't think so.

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Oh Buddha please show me the middle path. VOA may very well produce news stories that are critical of the Lao government (I am not American by the way, although I have nothing against Americans per se, but would certainly stand by the Lao government if it came to chosing between Buasone and George W-Butthead) but that does not mean VOA should be ignored. It is GOOD that there are different points of view. I disagree with your evidence in opposiing VOA: you are giving examples of quantity, which is fine, it is certainly the case that education has increased in 'quantity' since 1975. The RLG did nothing to expand education, this was partly because they were fighting a civil war against the Pathet Lao, and partly because they were sitting in Vientiane getting fat and rich off American Cold War dollars. I don't know how VOA measures education quality either, but I do know that education quality is NOT the same s 'quantity' and i do know that JICA can build a thousand schools in Laos but there are not enough qualified teachers to run them. This year I was in a southern Lao province doing a survey to provide support for primary schools , including ones that Lao government media said were new and role model schools. When we got to two of these schools we found that they had one teacher for every 120 students. The teacher taught 60 students in two classrooms and had to move from one to the other. They did not even have the correct textbooks for the school year. So, yes, there are many schools in Laos and yes, if you have money you can go to a good 'private' college in Vientiane, but most people in Laos do not have money and while they can go to the 'many' schools in laos the quality of their education is poor. Is it decling like VOA said? We cannot know because the government seems incapable of doing an unbiased survey of education in Laos; at the moment officials care more about looking good that about reporting on what is really going on. I didn't go to see the old schools before the new ones were built, so maybe education quality has gone from 'very shodding poor' to just 'poor'. But then again, maybe VOA is actually correct. Because if I was a qualified teacher in Laos I would not want to work in a remote province where education was needed, I would come to get good pay in Vientiane. In this case I think it may be correct that EDUCATION IS GETTING WORSE in the country as a whole because the qualified teachers are not going back to their provinces to teach. Of course, if you simply ignore VOA for being anti-government, and just listen to what the government says about how it is improving without actually considering some of the more uncomfortable possibilities, then you will not agree.

Date: Aug 13, 2007

Maybe all of us didn't see the article:” Laos Educational Quality declining” written by education quality expert of VOA, so here would like to provide some part of article. "Official statics show an overall decrease in the number of students completing secondary schools throughout the country for the academic year 2006-07. The number of failing students is larger in provinces than in the capital city area, reflecting another problem - disparity in the quality of the education provided to students.
Laos' higher education system is also facing serious problems - lack of qualified teachers, equipments, space and teaching materials. Out of the more than 40,000 students who completed secondary education this year, some 24,000 competed in college entrance exam for 1,500 in the LaoNationalUniversity".
Here we can see that the editor did not provide any references of documents or people involved or experts' opinion, but concluded by himself just based on some appearances. The fact is first, the problems in remote area have long existed, but now become better because before in that area there were no any schools. Second, now the qualified professors and lecturers in universities are much better than previous time, because the numbers of professors with Master and PhD degree are getting more and more, while last time mostly with Bachelor degree. But why the guy reported lack of qualified teachers? The last one I don't understand why the entrance exam showed not good for this VOA reporter? Whether he want all students who have taken this exam pass 100% ? Sorry, that was never before in Lao history. The fact is quite ironically, usually everywhere, the reporter is based on the fact or people involved or experts' opinions. Here you concluded by yourself like you work there for long time. You just want to make report bias so that your boss will be glad. That's the issue!

santy · Member

what shld we do about that? the best way all u guys back to Laos and improve that! not only post here!

Date: Aug 13, 2007

Okay let come back to this topic's issue about young people in night clubs.
The good thing is now clubs in Pakse,have police asking ID or bud parchum to before allowing to be in the club. I now live in Australia and this information was from my sister back there in Pakse, so I could not be wrong information.

Talking about VOA you can not blame them, they always criticize about socialist countries, that's their policy, but let me tell you, back there during Lao's monarchy regime or Lao still had a King, there was no tv, no University, just Lycee and Lao's education was run by the french. So I am now approaching 60 years old, I believe Lao's education is improving. If you look to country like USA, and its education particularly when you wanted to go to University, you must have money....otherwise forget about it. Money control everything in America.

Remind another matter in the previous person who mentioned about Lao's Conflict....the reality back there was Prince Souphanouvong, and his party whatever party it was, Won the election fair and square, but the otherside did not accept like you see now in East Timor, for worst they arrested Souphanouvong and put him in JAIL, the Prince was in Jail , untill he was rescue. There something for someone who missed that part, now you know.

Date: Aug 14, 2007

Thank you Aunty or Uncle from Australia. Now I know well about VOA policy.

Date: Aug 14, 2007

noung sua lai, maa hao, vao kwarm kao, ma lao pit kan - seems that history is an obstacle for our understanding each other. I've no idea why you being 60 makes you right about education quality in Laos, but what the hey, I'll agree with you anyway, 60 is a wonderful ripe old age to get to, congratulations! Whether you want to reject the VOA article as anti-government or not (lets say for argument's sake that we have rejected it), my original point was simply that the quality of education is related to drug use and other social problems for Lao youth, as it is also in America. There are now large swathes of the American population recieving a very poor education relative to other developed countries, and it is in these communities that drug abuse is highest (sorry I cannot be bothered to find any evidence for this claim but it is true, I read it somewhere, in an article that some of you might call anti-US government!). As far as law and order goes, yes it has to be enforced, but it is only a very small part of the solution to youth problems. The history (maa hao, maa hao) of Laos and every other country is shaped by people refusing to accept authority and laws in the name of 'ideals' ( an example being the socialists fighting against what they saw as neocolonialism - they rejected the laws of the lao government at that time and installed their own based upon new ideals). History has not stopped today. I ask again, what 'ideals' are youth in Laos influenced by? This for me is far more important than laws, and anti-government propaganda, and debatable notions of improvement in education quality. So, apart from Bill Gates, a billionaire who has never been to laos, WHO ARE THE ROLE MODELS AND WHAT ARE THE IDEALS OF YOUTH IN LAOS? Anyone....? (a good quality education will help them find these things)

And as for you mr singapore, whats with all that kee about me having no experience and just wanting to impress my boss? You just guessing or you could not think of anything else to say? I am my own master, bor me nai bor me leng although I do sometimes feel like a dog barking at elephants.

Date: Aug 14, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

noung sua lai, maa hao, vao kwarm kao, ma lao pit kan - seems that history is an obstacle for our understanding each other. I've no idea why you being 60 makes you right about education quality in Laos, but what the hey, I'll agree with you anyway, 60 is a wonderful ripe old age to get to, congratulations! Whether you want to reject the VOA article as anti-government or not (lets say for argument's sake that we have rejected it), my original point was simply that the quality of education is related to drug use and other social problems for Lao youth, as it is also in America. There are now large swathes of the American population recieving a very poor education relative to other developed countries, and it is in these communities that drug abuse is highest (sorry I cannot be bothered to find any evidence for this claim but it is true, I read it somewhere, in an article that some of you might call anti-US government!). As far as law and order goes, yes it has to be enforced, but it is only a very small part of the solution to youth problems. The history (maa hao, maa hao) of Laos and every other country is shaped by people refusing to accept authority and laws in the name of 'ideals' ( an example being the socialists fighting against what they saw as neocolonialism - they rejected the laws of the lao government at that time and installed their own based upon new ideals). History has not stopped today. I ask again, what 'ideals' are youth in Laos influenced by? This for me is far more important than laws, and anti-government propaganda, and debatable notions of improvement in education quality. So, apart from Bill Gates, a billionaire who has never been to laos, WHO ARE THE ROLE MODELS AND WHAT ARE THE IDEALS OF YOUTH IN LAOS? Anyone....? (a good quality education will help them find these things)

And as for you mr singapore, whats with all that kee about me having no experience and just wanting to impress my boss? You just guessing or you could not think of anything else to say? I am my own master, bor me nai bor me leng although I do sometimes feel like a dog barking at elephants.

This guy seems to be an unducated man whose comment is a rubbish. He seems to be a dog of Vang Pao.

Date: Aug 14, 2007

Yes, too hard, be polite guys! To some extent, I cannot imagine why certain people holding foreign passports love to critisize Lao government. If we have lots of experinces or knowledges and so long as we are the so called Lao race, why don't we give some foods for thought to Lao government. This would only help our nation to improve their life as well as our Lao race image. Look Chinese people as an example, they are proud to be Chinese, although they are USA citizen.

Best wishes,

Date: Aug 14, 2007

I would like to refer to the comments of the person above who stated QUOTE ' an example being the socialists fighting agaisnt what they saw as neocolonialism- they rejected the law of the lao government at the time.' Well the reality is that back there when Prince Souphanouvong and his party won the election 'fair and square' but the otheside did not accept the result of that election and for worst they arrested Prince Souphanouvong and dismissed his party and put the Prince in jail. Prince Souphanouvong actually was in jail. He won the election and ended up in Jail.....why this person did not mention anything about this part, Skip it or did not know or pretending to aware of this matter.
He also attacked the person who said Lao's education now is improving. By saying ' Just Quantity not Quality' of course we could not compare Lao's education to richest countries on earth, but to have more schools and univeristies which were virtually non exist in the past, more Lao's children attended to schools, that's mean more people know how to read and write that's already A STEP FORWARD. No doubt.

Date: Aug 14, 2007

Oh! Talking about Prince Souphanouvong, today have read one article related to him. Pease have a look at:
http://www.kpl.net.la/english/news/edn6.htm

Date: Aug 14, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, too hard, be polite guys! To some extent, I cannot imagine why certain people holding foreign passports love to critisize Lao government. If we have lots of experinces or knowledges and so long as we are the so called Lao race, why don't we give some foods for thought to Lao government. This would only help our nation to improve their life as well as our Lao race image. Look Chinese people as an example, they are proud to be Chinese, although they are USA citizen.

Best wishes,

Yes, I also think so, why do they really love to criticize our government instead of giving some suggestions for thought? Some are blaming our government without shame or being afraid of sin. Or whether they get some money for such kind of action?

Date: Aug 14, 2007

I absolutely agree with you that large numbers of young people are patronizing night spots. I live in VTE and at present, I am no surprise to see young girls (in their 14 - 16s) get involved in prostitution in pubs and disco. i know young boys involved in drugs and alcohol. I feel that giving a ban to clubs that spotted with such activities is one of the best choice. Having undercover police to arrest the prostitutes and have their parents interview. Make the law breaker do social works, etc. As for the media, wirte more about education, IT, youth ambitions. I would like to see my younger brithers and sisters going to library or do volunteer works and go to temples. Thank you for your post and I hope some important men will see this and help the sociaty.

Date: Aug 14, 2007

Vice ?....Vice Activity ?.....Activity Vice ?....????

vice(n)= 1- a) an evil action or habit
                  b) evil conduct
                  c) prostitution

               2- a trivial fault or failing